Curse

Gun Pierson · May 31, 2008, 12:16 AM // 00:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

If Ether Renewal is overpowered, why my E/Mo can't get into pugs as a superior to monk healer? I have better self-heal, better party and single-target heal, yet I don't have any chances to get into a pug. So it's NOT overpowered.

I think because the masses don't realise this yet. I made a protection ele hero to test and it's amazing how the build works. The only prob is that he won't use the build to it's fullest potential as the AI is limited. A human player can pre-protect. Skills like aegis, protective spirit, extinguish and other energy draining skills are no problem while spamming reversal of fortune and other low energy spells like shielding hands etc. Healing and protecting the whole group in the process. 'Burst Cancel' below me reminded me about the bonding possabilities.

I'm not taking sides at this point (even though I'm for a split, but we're talking about one specific skill here). You know you're powerful, just wanted that to add.

Burst Cancel · May 31, 2008, 12:18 AM // 00:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

This is definitely a case of "be careful what you wish for".

That bit only applies when the people doing the wishing are stricken with some unintended consequence of their wish. In this case, I would say that the people who actually wished for this got exactly what they wished for. The only people who are dismayed are the people who were against this from the start because they knew what would happen.

Whoever is up there playing the "It's just a game!" card, keep in mind that there are different kinds of games. Tic-Tac-Toe and Chess are both games, but there is a huge difference in the quality and complexity of their mechanics. Casual gamers are TTT players, so if game companies keep catering to them, the industry is going to be left with a bunch of shallow games for incompetent morons.

It's too late for GW though. Just toss it on the heap with Tic-Tac-Toe and wait to see if anything better comes along.

But yeah, in the meantime: Chimera of Intensity and eight elites. Come on!!!! *whine whine whine*

------
Edit: the old Ether Renewal builds have been known for a long time since they were, of course, the reason the skill was nerfed in the first place. Since energy pips can only go to -10, you can maintain as many enchantments on as many people as you want provided you have enough enchantments on you to make up -10 pips (-3.33 nrg/sec).

Put frankly though, ER is an infinite energy engine - you can use it to power whatever the hell you want. Put prot bond back on your bar. Spam 25e skills on recharge. Use your imagination.

fenix · May 31, 2008, 12:25 AM // 00:25

Well if so many of you DIDN'T want this to happen, where were you in all the "split pvp and pve" threads huh? Why weren't you posting "No, don't do this, it will make PvE imbalanced", or "We need balance so that skills aren't TOO overpowered"? Well? Oh that's right, none of you cared.

Basically, too late now.

Turtle222 · May 31, 2008, 12:39 AM // 00:39

Many veterans that remain are still blind as to what direction anet is going. Those that left the game and are still commenting here do have their opinions read, but not considered in my eyes. Times have changed.

This is my opinion, but it appears that many people wanted Anet to revert to prophecies ways since they remember having fun. This is mere nostalgia. Anet introduce these skills to make pve easier because the playerbase demands it. No-one really wants, well not me anyway, to replay a campaign more than once or twice for every char. these skills allow them to get it done faster.

bhavv · May 31, 2008, 12:51 AM // 00:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenix

As Izzy said, the majority just want to blow up everything with really imba skills. That has happened, enjoy.

Izzy is an idiot if he said that. Oh wait a minute, that has already been established from his skill fixes over the last few years ...

I havnt read anyone wanting Ether Renewal or Shadow Form to get buffed this much, they got the idea for it themselves without testing it.

fenix · May 31, 2008, 12:52 AM // 00:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

Izzy is an idiot if he said that. Oh wait a minute, that has already been established from his skill fixes over the last few years ...

His skill changes were like because the people above him didn't want PvErs to get mad, which of course made the changes AWFUL. So really, stfu.

byteme! · May 31, 2008, 12:52 AM // 00:52

Gosh if we could have the days of Prophecies back Anet could take away all the "newly added or newly buffed" overpowered/imbalanced skills.

*no loot scaling
*no AoE scatter (if you think some of the skills on the Ele is overpowered now you should see how it was before when nothing ran from AoE)
*book trick was still in place (was a bug/exploit or something along that line but it was available for a very long time, everyone knew about it but hardly anyone complained because it was a ton of fun and to think we have Ob Flesh tanks nowadays. pitty)
*pre-nerf Soul Reaping
*unlimited minions (Sorrow's Furnace occupied a crap load of my time...someone say Ursan is overpowered? pitty)
*blood of the master had no penalty (ties together with above statement in keeping a large army of minions alive...I'm talking in the 20-60 minions range or something to that extent)
*Absortion runes stacked
*pre-nerfed Armor levels...(all the -# damages apply to only physical now among other things)
*AL stacking with multiple skills beyond 25AL
*we didn't have HM (i wish we did have it back then but just goes to show how easy it was back then)
*monster skills (inner fire? call of torment? wtf is that? Says 2005)
*no environmental effects

I'm sure there are a lot more but can't think of them right now.

Boy we had it good. To think we have imbalance and overpowered skills now says the few. Game was ridiculously easy back then. Far easier then it is now even with all this overpowered sutff floating around. All this stuff about Anet dumbing down the game is ludicrous. The game was never hard to begin with. The game was far more dumbed down back in the day. The enemy AI was retarded at best. Anet has come along way people. Ursan is imbalanced? Where the hell were you in 2005? Under a rock?!

bhavv · May 31, 2008, 12:57 AM // 00:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenix

His skill changes were like because the people above him didn't want PvErs to get mad, which of course made the changes AWFUL. So really, stfu.

What? His skill changes for three full years gave no consideration whatsoever to PVE.

And no one in PVE wanted crap like Ursan untill Anet put it into the game.

No one actually wanted all of these PVE skills.

All we wanted from the first day was PVE and PVP skill seperation, and they take three full years to do that and turn it into a complete joke!

BTW revert Stoneflesh Aura back to its previous duration and give Mhenlo in Eotn LoD back! I cant see how they missed doing little simple things like this with this update.

The only two skills that were majorly affected in PVE by PVP balance recently were LoD and WY. The rest I couldnt care about, at least not about any were changed in this update.

All of this is a joke by Anet to its players. A joke because they cant get anything right in the first place.

Also, removing loot scaling and AoE scatter in PVE would be a far better thing to do then all of this skill seperation crap that they cant even get right. And yes, revert soul reaping for PVE FFS. I dont play a necro, but how would giving them SR back in PVE be bad in anyway?

fenix · May 31, 2008, 01:13 AM // 01:13

You think Izzy was responsible for that? It's the people above him. They are catering almost entirely for PvErs because that's where the money comes from. Obviously there was a desire to blow things up all day, so they helped PvErs do that by adding PvE skills and such.

Izzy doesn't decide what skills get added...

tuna-fish_sushi · May 31, 2008, 01:24 AM // 01:24

Hey I have this Crazy idea!! If you want a challenge or think a skill is to powerful... Don't use it!!??

"Hmm I just owned up HM with my new ER build, i wish it was more of a challenge. I know I'll change my build!!"
-Tuna Fish Sushi

I always wanted to quote my self...

Seriously I don't see any reason to nerf pve skills.

BlackSephir · May 31, 2008, 01:32 AM // 01:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by tuna-fish_sushi

Hey I have this Crazy idea!! If you want a challenge or think a skill is to powerful... Don't use it!!??

First class, new argument right there. And not totally retarded.

DarkNecrid · May 31, 2008, 01:54 AM // 01:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenix

You think Izzy was responsible for that? It's the people above him. They are catering almost entirely for PvErs because that's where the money comes from. Obviously there was a desire to blow things up all day, so they helped PvErs do that by adding PvE skills and such.

Izzy doesn't decide what skills get added...

Actually, that's not entirely true. He is given an icon, and builds a skill around it. At least this was the case for Prophecies-Factions-NF. Who knows for PvE skills.

PvE doesn't need a real balance. Yes there can be overpowered stuff like there is now, but it needs to be beatable, and have many viable builds. PvP balances more than accomadated for both, and if you stopped using the PUG mentality, there was many viable builds pre-Ursan. Unfortunately, very few people did this, and blahblahblah.

lacasner · May 31, 2008, 02:13 AM // 02:13

This was just so blatantly predictable ever since Anet decided to go this route with balancing. I'll repeat what I've been saying for like forever, that PvP gets skill balance preferences first, and PvE lives with it because PvE is EASY. I know, it's shocking for some people on this forum to hear that, but it's the truth.

Clarissa F · May 31, 2008, 02:13 AM // 02:13

You could put ether renewal in Air and let everyone have it. GOGO Dervish e-management with no avatar!

I like what has happened to PvE. It's driven me to PvP, realizing how good that side of the game is in comparison. It's bad for those who have skills in PvE to play the game, and spent their time developing them. For the other 99%, they are the reason heroes were created, the reason anyone with two brain cells goes with guildies or H/H instead of PUGs, and the reason it has been so dumbed down.

For that 99%, have fun with whack-a-mole, tards.

byteme! · May 31, 2008, 02:26 AM // 02:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clarissa F

and the reason it has been so dumbed down.

Do you know how much easier it was before in the early days? You think it's dumbed down now? You missed the boat 'cause the ship already sailed. They are slowly making it as easy as day 1 but Anet ain't quite there yet. Maybe a few more QQ threads before that happens.

Hyper Cutter · May 31, 2008, 02:42 AM // 02:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

That's because not using them and leaving them aside means you're gimping yourself.

Who would want to gimp themselves now?

That IS usually the way people make challenges for themselves in games ("I'll play the game using X character/no items/no magic/ at low levels/etc")...

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

The skill actually doesn't matter.
The start of this idiotic thing is that Kunny is floating in the air and can not be reached by melee guys!!!!
Talk about balance!
*rolleyes*

Also that whole "interrupts don't work on Kuunavang most of the time" thing...

Burst Cancel · May 31, 2008, 03:16 AM // 03:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hyper Cutter

That IS usually the way people make challenges for themselves in games ("I'll play the game using X character/no items/no magic/ at low levels/etc")...

In the bad games, maybe. The good games tend to have built-in difficulty (e.g., Devil May Cry's DMD mode, Valkyrie Profile's X crystal runs, etc.).

Edit: "DMD", not "DMC".

samifly · May 31, 2008, 03:43 AM // 03:43

Ether renewal at least requires some brain work to devise your build or steal it off PvX wiki. Unlike Ursan.

I miss my old Guild Wars. When people seemed to give a care. Every update like this makes me want to buy GW2 less and less.

GW used to have some strategy at least.

Dr Strangelove · May 31, 2008, 03:55 AM // 03:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burst Cancel

In the bad games, maybe. The good games tend to have built-in difficulty (e.g., Devil May Cry's DMC mode, Valkyrie Profile's X crystal runs, etc.).

God I love Devil May Cry. That is quite possibly the best action rpg ever made. Go away Diablo.

My rule of thumb is that if I can't beat the highest level of a game, it's well balanced. This means there's always room to improve and whip the AI a little more effectively. Games from the Nintendo era fit this fairly well, primarily to satisfy the arcade audience. if players keep dying, they keep pumping in quarters. For better or for worse, games lately favor accessibility - any schmo can beat the game without too much undue effort. This isn't completely bad, players feel ripped off when they can't make any progress in a game they paid 50 bucks for. Anyway, harder modes and endgame content often exist to satisfy the need for a challenge.

Guild Wars doesn't have any challenge left. Any idiot can beat all of hard mode and the elite missions given time. There aren't obstacles to be overcome, the learning curve is a slight downward slope, and there's not motivation to become engaged in the game. For the thick, this is a bad thing.

For the tired old argument of playing with 4 skills/solo/drunk:

Would it be a good game for the Arsenal to play a youth soccer team while hopping on one leg? Would the Tour De France be a better challenge for riders if they had to have flat tires? The biggest part of the fun of a challenge comes from trying your very best to improve yourself. When you add artificial roadblocks, you remove that idea of trying your best.

TL;DR version: Bah, games are too easy today, you kids get off my lawn.

Nightmares Hammer · May 31, 2008, 04:08 AM // 04:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

God I love Devil May Cry. That is quite possibly the best action rpg ever made. Go away Diablo.

My rule of thumb is that if I can't beat the highest level of a game, it's well balanced. This means there's always room to improve and whip the AI a little more effectively. Games from the Nintendo era fit this fairly well, primarily to satisfy the arcade audience. if players keep dying, they keep pumping in quarters. For better or for worse, games lately favor accessibility - any schmo can beat the game without too much undue effort. This isn't completely bad, players feel ripped off when they can't make any progress in a game they paid 50 bucks for. Anyway, harder modes and endgame content often exist to satisfy the need for a challenge.

Guild Wars doesn't have any challenge left. Any idiot can beat all of hard mode and the elite missions given time. There aren't obstacles to be overcome, the learning curve is a slight downward slope, and there's not motivation to become engaged in the game. For the thick, this is a bad thing.

For the tired old argument of playing with 4 skills/solo/drunk:

Would it be a good game for the Arsenal to play a youth soccer team while hopping on one leg? Would the Tour De France be a better challenge for riders if they had to have flat tires? The biggest part of the fun of a challenge comes from trying your very best to improve yourself. When you add artificial roadblocks, you remove that idea of trying your best.

TL;DR version: Bah, games are too easy today, you kids get off my lawn.

/agree

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